Forum    FAQ

Board index » GUNSnAMMO RELOADING OPTICS TRAILCAMS VIDEOS » GENERAL GUNS AND LOADS


Forum rules


:arrow: You agree "NOT" to post any disrespectful, abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, or sexually-orientated content.
:arrow: *No Advertising



 [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 10:58 am 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Posts: 116
This gun always shot 1.5 MOA, then became sub MOA with several hundred rounds. Assumed the copper build up helped. 2 years ago the sling broke and gun hit barrel 1st bouncing back up and destroying the scope. She couldn't shoot an 8" group at 100 yards after I cleaned all the copper, after about 200 rounds Ole Betsy's back in the hunt. I could see the groups tightening up all along the way while shooting till she got back to MOA. Here's what I don't understand. This gun zeros well at 100 yds at 1' above bullseye. After 100 yd zero, moving to 200-300 yds, it has always needed windage adjustment moving crosshairs to the left about 2-3 clicks. This is with little to no wind. Scope turrets were all 1/4' at 100 yds. I am not sure what the barrel twist is.
This has happend on 3 different scopes over the years.
Any ideas?
Is it barrel twist? Shooter error?

BTW, made in Belgium, assembled in Italy.
Thank you,
Ronnie


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 4:55 pm 
Offline
DIAMOND+
DIAMOND+
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:00 am
Posts: 1064
Location: Santa Fe, TX
I would also say that I too have observed that copper fouling in the bore tends to help with accuracy to a certain degree. My .308 AR is like that. I had it shooting MOA with good ammo. My buddy suggested I get it REALLY clean, and clean out all the copper fouling to ensure the barrel was getting the MOST accuracy from the reloads. Well, the exact opposite occurred. The accuracy went down hill after the cleaning of the barrel. It went from MOA to 3.5 MOA. Initially, I thought maybe I had made some mistake with my reloads, and I checked them. No, no mistakes on the reloads. So, I shot a bunch of factory loads. I shot maybe another 180-200rnds of factory loads, only cleaning the bore with a bore snake as I had done initially. And, she settled right back down to MOA groups when I do my part.

So, my take on copper fouling is that some fouling in the bore is beneficial. And, unless my accuracy DECREASES significantly due to copper fouling, I won't be making any effort to thoroughly clean all of it out of the bore.

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 5:08 pm 
Offline
DIAMOND+
DIAMOND+
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:00 am
Posts: 1064
Location: Santa Fe, TX
Your group being off 2-3 clicks at 2-300yrds isn't too bad. And, it may be an indication of you pushing your shots slightly. I don't know, but you might try putting a little more finger on the trigger. Also, sometimes heat build up can cause groups to stray a bit. Sometimes they might string up and down, or left and right. I've seen groups shift significantly due to heat build up from firing a bit too fast on the line. With the BAR, your forearm may be touching somewhere along the barrel causing this to occur more readily. This could be the case, especially since you've indicated the barrel has been struck. This is one reason most target shooters want free floated barrels. Anything touching the barrel can affect accuracy, especially at longer distances AND as temps rise in the barrel from shooting.

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 9:53 pm 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Posts: 116
Thanks for the input. My xbolt doesnt like much copper but Betsy sure does. I shoot with bench rest bags and use the same table and set up for sight in and long range. I'll check my 100 yard zero again and I suspect it'll be an inch left at 100 but back on at 300. She did that before the drop too. I actually traded her in on the Xbolt, but was sick about that. So 2 weeks later I went back and bought her again! I was so happy to get her back even though she couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I did shave the wood forearm for some clearance on the right front side. Hitting that plate at 350 over and over was fun and the barrel got so hot I couldn't touch it. I'll post back as soon as she nails some pork hopefully behind the ear, like she was doing predrop. Please tell Kevin a big thank you from me, he sent the right wiring after I screwed up.. You guys are great and I love these lights! I've watched bear, deer, hog and bobcat and they dont see the light! God bless


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 3:34 pm 
Offline
DIAMOND+
DIAMOND+
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:00 am
Posts: 1064
Location: Santa Fe, TX
Sounds like a plan!! Look forward to hearing about your hog killing!!

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2019 12:02 am 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Posts: 116
Dang, BAR is out of action. Meostar scope lost it’s zero putting out corn. Hogs are showing up at noon & last light. Xbolt & Zeiss will be in action as soon as the wind shifts Monday. Ordered a Steiner today for Betsy. BTW, rings & bases were solid + I use a little resin on the rings. Meostar has a very slick finish and will slip in the rings if I don’t use the resin. It held zero after resetting zero but lost it riding trails again. Another good thing about Texas Boars lights are you are not blinded by the muzzle blast!


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:43 am 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:02 am
Posts: 134
Location: Longview, TX
When the cartridge 'fires,' it's an explosion that starts your barrel vibrating like ripples on a pond but in all possible directions. As the bullet goes down the bore, it also effects the barrel harmonics/ vibrations. Try zeroing at 200 yards and see where your 100 yard bullet passes thru the target. (I shoot 150 gr Nosler Partition bullets in my 30-06. It's 1.75 inches high at 100 yds with a 200 yd zero.)

If the bore diameter of your rifle is actually 0.308 and it takes 200 rds to get enough fouling to get accuracy, your bullets may be too hard to obdurate enough to fill the bore. Gas blow-by can cause a slight yawing to the bullet after it leaves the barrel that will effect the groups. An accurate load should be accurate in multiple rifles unless the rifle requires it's own special load due to individual rifle issues. (Just some late night thoughts....)

_________________
-------------------

Semper Fi,

Tom


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:55 am 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Posts: 116
Great advice! I always finish my rifle sights at 200! Great minds think alike! It’s good to hit what we shoot at and sighting in @1.5” -2” is perfect for a 30-06!
Good luck hunting with your Grandson!
God bless you!


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:28 pm 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Posts: 116
Just heard from Meopta, scope was shifting with light tapping on bell, 1-1.5 MOA movement. Getting a replacement. Can’t wait to get her back on hogs. I ain’t taking the Zeiss off my Xbolt since it’s holding so well.


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:29 pm 
Offline
DIAMOND+
DIAMOND+
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:00 am
Posts: 1064
Location: Santa Fe, TX
Glad to hear Meopta is taking care of you on this. That's good to know that they'll stand behind their optics.

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 2:41 pm 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Posts: 116
Yes, very good customer service! Their glass is exceptional too!
Shot the Xbolt with Zeiss to check Zero at 100 yds... pulled 1st shot then next 3 were touching for a 1/4" group all 2" directly above zero as I was steadier.


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:39 pm 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Posts: 116
Mounted Steiner on BAR, after sighting in 1st 2 shots were about 1/2” apart on 3 different groups. The next shot was 1-1.5” away. Any ideas on this? Could it be Barrel heating up? I had a solid rest and I did not wait long between shots. I’m thinking I should shoot twice let Barrel cool for a minute or 2, then shoot the 3 rd, repeat wait on 4 &5..


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:35 am 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:02 am
Posts: 134
Location: Longview, TX
I would suggest shooting a 5 round group, one round every 5 minutes and see what the results are. Leave the bolt open between shots. Then tell us the results. :)

_________________
-------------------

Semper Fi,

Tom


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:44 am 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Posts: 116
Good advice! I’ll try that. The Barrel gets much hotter than the xbolt for some reason.


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:46 pm 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Posts: 116
I did the wait 5 mins between shots & couldn’t get a 3” group at 100 yds on 10-15 power. Dropped the power to 7 and got a 1.25 “ group at 100 yds with 2 thru same hole & 4 shots were within .5”. Really pleased. I guess the high magnification gave me some kind of issue. Xbolt was throwing a large pattern so it’s time to clean the copper out of it. God Bless


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:45 am 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:02 am
Posts: 134
Location: Longview, TX
Sounds like a scope issue if it's not grouping as well at it's higher powers.

_________________
-------------------

Semper Fi,

Tom


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:58 am 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Posts: 116
Just thought of this. I am no expert, but I have read on multiple forums that fixed parallax scopes have issues on magnifications greater than 9 to 10 power. Most of the shooters forums recommend staying under 9x for 100 yd parallax free scopes. I’ll need to raise the magnification while the gun is in a lead-sled & see for myself. Guess I’ll try the bobble head test to see if the x-hairs are shifting as I look thru the scopes. think this could be the problem, but I have no real knowledge of how this affects parallax. I did have some wiggle of the x-hairs on 15x with Steiner & no wiggle on 6-9 power. I had a really tough go with 2 AO scopes with parallax, both those scopes were defective and replaced. Just wondering if anyone has info or experience with this. That experience taught me a lot about accuracy and parallax, after shooting several hundred rounds. Will report how the bobble head thing goes when I see if the x-hairs wiggle at different magnifications. Should be a good test for max power of non AO scopes. Steiner 3-15x50 on BAR & Zeiss is 4-12x56 on Xbolt fixed parallax are both very solid on lower powers.


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:46 am 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:02 am
Posts: 134
Location: Longview, TX
Ronnie,

I don't see how that would be. The parallax adjustment usually is a way to focus the crosshairs of the scope to a better sharpness.... The 'parallax shift' may make the crosshairs shift on the target. A non-adjustable scope is usually set for 100 yds, which makes it good from 50 yds to almost 300 yds. Most Parallax adjustments say to "adjust' to the correct distance or until the crosshairs are at their clearist. That said, if you fire a group with the same parallax adjustment, the shots should hit the same point of impact if the eye relief, cheek weld, grip, tightness of grip and support of the weapon are the same. Your cheek weld/ head wobble will cause more issues than the parallax /AO adjustment. If you are seeing a dark ring/ shadow inside of the scope, you have the eye relief head placement wrong. When properly adjusted, mount the rifle with your eyes closed. After mounting the rifle, open your eyes and you should have a clear scope edge to edge.

Also, look at your scope's crosshair size at 100 yds. Most hunting scopes cover 1/2 inch. Fine or Extra Fine crosshairs cover 1/4 inch. The finer/ thinner crosshair is easier to shoot a smaller group with; but, it's harder to see during low light/ adverse hunting conditions. There's also 1st and 2nd focal plane scopes. On has the crosshairs stay the same throughout it's range of magnification while the other has the crosshair change size as the scope's power changes.

The point of impact should track with the scope adjustment changes in elevation and windage. It should not change the point of impact with magnification change unless it has a loose lens or lens adjustment. A loose lens means you will have catastrophic scope failure in the future.

_________________
-------------------

Semper Fi,

Tom


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:59 am 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Posts: 116
Very good post! Thank you Tom!
The head bobble is to check the x/hairs for movement without touching the gun for best sight in distance only. That’s where I made a mistake, not checking. The scope is set parallax free, I’ll need to see if it’s 100 yds or 100 meters for best possible sight-in. There is a distance where X-hair wiggle will stop using the head bobble then will get the best possible group I believe. What I think it showed me is that the parallax changes slightly when the magnification is increased past 9-10 power. The head bobble is the only way to know the exact distance where the scope is truly parallax free. It’s not much, this gun shoots tighter groups & I won’t know how good this scope is until I check this.


Top 
  
 
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:57 pm 
Offline
BRONZE
BRONZE
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Posts: 116
Past 9x both fixed parallax scopes had parallax with gun stationary. BAR was about 1.5” at 100 yds & xbolt 3/4” group at 100 yds, both on 9x. Got about a 4-5” group with BAR at 200 yds. Xbolt was slightly over 1” group at 200 yds with 2 bullets cutting the same hole. I may try the Steiner on the Xbolt since it’s so accurate. I’m just not sure I want to take the Zeiss off the Xbolt. It’s set and holding zero. Need to try the Federal Fussion on the BAR since she was shooting sub moa with that ammo.


Top 
  
 
 
 [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index » GUNSnAMMO RELOADING OPTICS TRAILCAMS VIDEOS » GENERAL GUNS AND LOADS


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
LED LIGHTING