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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:05 pm 
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Subsonic loads for hunting wild hogs :?:
Pros and Cons.
My personal experience is "reality". I'm sure there are those "most skilled elite hunters" who's going to jump at the chance to dramatize this issue. I ain't interested in drama. I stick with reality. That's what my experience will represent.

This has become a popular topic of debate and even some downright nasty arguments. Hopefully we'll avoid the nasty arguments and just discuss some facts.
I know it's popular, especially now that Texas and other states have legalized hunting with suppressors.
About two years ago I got the "bug" and started hunting hogs with subsonic loads. Seems as though everybody was pushing subsonic loads for suppressors. Questions were asked and answers were a dime a dozen.
Let's see, how could I express my personal experience after two years of shooting hogs with subsonic loads :?: :roll: Ignore 90% of what you read and what you hear, and take another 5% and flush it down the toilet, and then perhaps you'll have 5% of something to work with.

#1 statement that makes me sick when I hear it, usually goes something like this:
Quote:
a large group came out at 200 yards (some unrealistic distance) we shot all of them and they never new we were shooting at them :crazy: we killed'em all :o

It's now clear, those people are lying, or, they never shot subsonic loads in their life.

Here are some issues I had to deal with:
Bullet stability was a real (3 letter word).
Bullet trajectory was a real (3 letter word).
Actual knockdown power of a subsonic round is (a whole bunch of 3 letter words).
It ain't Hollywood,, now that's the truth!

So, where did I start and what pit-falls can I help somebody avoid :?: I started with 308 Winchester.
Now, we have to get down and dirty and get deep into some specifics:
not just any gun will work with subsonic loads

BARREL TWIST AND BULLET
With a 308 you need at least a 1 in 10 or tighter twist.
Then you must use a short stubby bullet (30-30 160 grn works really good) or else the bullet will tumble and fly off into the neighbors property or hit the dirt nowhere near what you're aiming at.
You see, with subsonic loads the velocity (1,000 fps at the muzzle) is so slow that it won't spin fast enough to keep the bullet in a nice tight stable flight (bullet stability or bullet yaw). Like throwing a football, it has to spin to keep a nice tight spiral. Well, many if not most guns don't come with that tight of twist. So, bullets yaw and tumble as soon as they leave the muzzle. This is where most everybody reaches their first hurdles and winds up blowing their first 1,000.00.
If you're going to shoot subsonic loads your barrel must have a twist that is fast enough to stabilize that calibers heaviest longest bullets. With a 308 caliber that's a 1 in 10 twist or even a 1 in 9.
Then, you'll have to develop a load for your specific gun. Not only that, you'll have to develop at least two or three loads. WHY? because what works in the summer won't work in the winter. That or develop one load that's around 975 - 1,000 fps in the summer. I would give some long drawn out explanation but the simple explanation is,, powder burn rate will vary due to temperature. Not only that, speed of sound will vary due to atmospheric conditions. SO what is subsonic on a clear summer day won't be subsonic when it's cool and damp!
WHEW, it's just a big (3 letter word).

Then, once you get all that figured out, you're going to find out the worst of all of it :o My bow and arrow will shoot as flat as that dang bullet!
Thats right, you can "forget" about the Hollywood version where the good guy takes out a bad guy at 2-- 300 yards and ""nobody"" hears it :crazy: :clap: That's Hollywood, and to my astonishment it aint reality.
Here's why,
1,000 FPS at the muzzle, here's roughly about whatyou're looking at:
50 Yard zero - (-6' at 100) (-30" at 150) (- :?: 5 or 6 foot at 200) :lol:
Basically you are limited to 100 yards - UNLESS, you are so skilled you determine 130 yards from 140 yards and 150 yards from 155 yards 195 yards from 200 yards. Can't NOBODY do that.
AINT NOBODY gong to busting a whole group a hogs walking around in a pasture at 150 or 200 yards :silent: You got a better chance at using a regular load at 1000 yards.
After all that, you're faced with another fact. Silencing or suppressing your gun, well OK, I guarantee you, that bullet striking the hog will sound like a "Louisville Slugger" slamming a watermelon at 100 MPH! Than means it is "loud". Only the dumbest, most stupid, (3 letter hogs) would just stand around while Hank Arron slams on them with a baseball bat. :lol:

Now, after all that, I have killed around 12 hogs with my 308 using subsonic loads.
Nope, let me rephrase that, I have shot about 12 hogs with my 308 using subsonic loads. I recovered, best I can remember about 8 of them. The gun is accurate. AT 100 yards I can get about 1.5 inch group. I can shoot hogs. But, shooting (hitting) hogs with a subsonic 308 and killing them is two different things. You could do better stabbing them with a knife.
---> neck shots have proven to be a joke. the last 3 I shot in the neck I did not recover.
---> Broadside double lung shots have resulted in runs of about 100 to 200 yards.
----> the best you can hope for is to clip the spine through the shoulder. Thats a DRT - well at least you can walk up and put another round into'em.

In the end, I did best with a 44 Mag handi-rifle loaded with 300 grn hollow points. It's loud when it hits, but it works much more reliably than any 30 caliber.
My last hog was 400 pound plus dugga-hog I shot at 30 yards through the shoulder and into the spine, 3 shots later at point blank he was still struggling to breathe but on his death bed.
Double lung shots with the 44 will result in runs of 50 to 75 yards and you will have a decent blood trail as long as the shield isn't too thick.

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:00 am 
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Glad you posted this, was thinking of getting a suppresser on my .308 or .44. And haven't made my decision yet, this is good info looking to hear from more people before I decide one way or the other


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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:00 pm 
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Going suppressed has some advantages.
They are great for saving ear-drums from bursting, especially if you hunt in a group.
But sub-sonic for hunting,, that's a joke.
Subsonic is fun to shoot and plink and mess around with. That's about it.

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:12 pm 
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O, so what is all the talk about hunting with it, would it work with regular loads or blow up or something? Ain't really ever messed with them or know anything about them, if they're just for plinking and playing around don't think I really eant to mess with them


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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:51 am 
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Using a suppressor with normal full power loads is not a problem.
The advantage in this instance is the wear and tear on your ears is pretty much eliminated, without
having to use ear protectors or ear plugs.
Since full power loads are still moving the bullet above the speed of sound, you'll still hear
the bullet due to it's small scale sonic boom. ( Anything going over about 1,100 feet per second that is. )

The real main advantage of using a suppressor - no muzzle blast to speak of.

Watch this 41 second long video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvQUhzMHk98


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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:07 pm 
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Hawgman wrote:
O, so what is all the talk about hunting with it, would it work with regular loads or blow up or something? Ain't really ever messed with them or know anything about them, if they're just for plinking and playing around don't think I really eant to mess with them

All the talk about hunting with "IT". A suppressor or subsonic loads?

Usisng a suppressor with standard loads will suppress the muzzle blast to a degree - making it where you can shoot weapons without hearing protection (save you and possibly your friends ears) along with some other advantages.
using a suppressor with subsonic loads --- subsonic loads eliminates the SONIC BOOM from rounds that exceed MACH I, Mach II and even Mach III it also eliminates the sonic crack of rounds as they ascend from MACH I, II, and III. Suppressors can get these loads down to about the equivalent of a 22 rimfire while still enjoying the advantage of full power loads.
Going subsonic is getting suppressing your shot down to the equivalent of a pellet gun or so and having virtually no recoil.

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:19 pm 
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Dang, somebody doesn't like subsonic loads :shock:
You mad bro? :mrgreen:


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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:08 am 
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I never got why so many guys have a boner for subsonic hunting. Why limit yourself that way and raise the odds of wounding your quarry?
Now, Suppressed Full Power Loads, Heck Yeah.

My Boss shot a boar with a Subsonic 300 Blackout with 208gr bullets at about 30yds. He had to shoot it 9 times and it almost got away. They found a few of the bullets just under the hide on the ENTRANCE side. Zero expansion on the bullets.


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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:04 am 
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s10goes10s wrote:
Dang, somebody doesn't like subsonic loads :shock:
You mad bro? :mrgreen:


I love subsonic loads,, for playing around,, getting kids introduced to shooting big guns, and other things.
:arrow: For hunting anything larger than a feral cat or perhaps a coyote, they are a total waste,,,, other than 44 cal or larger. Like I said, using a 44 Mag (handi-rifle) I did OK. A 300 grn 44 at 1,000 FPS is fairly lethal on mid-size hogs out to 50 yards with a surgical strike.

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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:16 am 
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The gun I was thinking about was a .308 or .44 mag rifle after readying all this I'm thinking about getting it on my 44 rifle, for pigs and deer most my shots are under fifty yards and I'm shooting a 240 gr swc gas checked bullet going around 1100 to 1200 fps sounds like this might work for me


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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:37 pm 
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Just hope no gas checks come off a bullet while it's still passing
through the suppressor.....


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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:34 pm 
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O crap didn't think about that. Any suggestions?


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:27 am 
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The 300 grain Hornady XTP has been used with good results in subsonic loads on hogs.
There's always 240 grain jacketed bullets too of course.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:26 pm 
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Thanks for the help


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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:02 am 
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You're welcome. Check for a private message I sent you also.


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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:44 pm 
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I have read that a .308 subsonic 180 gr has about 400 lbs. energy at 50+ yard. With the right bullet I would try it. I just have no idea what the right bullet would be.


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 Post Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:48 pm 
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Dirty Dave posted above:
Quote:
My Boss shot a boar with a Subsonic 300 Blackout with 208gr bullets at about 30yds. He had to shoot it 9 times and it almost got away. They found a few of the bullets just under the hide on the ENTRANCE side. Zero expansion on the bullets.


If 208 grain bullets at 30 yards didn't do too well, will that 180 grain bullet do well at 50 yards ?

Texasboars HAS used 180 grain subsonic loads in a .308. He also stated above they are fun to play with.
But, I know he doesn't consider them to be a good idea on hogs.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:12 pm 
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Sub-Sonic really and truly has nothing to do with "ENERGY" as we would think of it normally :!:
The round is not moving fast enough to "damage" internal organs for a quick death.
Nothing you would relate to "normal' ballistics is "relative" in sub-sonic. It is symply to slow to create hydrostatic shock. It's like shooting an animal with an arrow with no broadhead - perhaps even worse :!: I think an arrow with field point would do more damage.

I WOULD NEVER use it for deer! EVER! Absolutely no need or excuse to justify using a subsonic for cherished valuable wildlife such as deer. NONE
A hog, I don't care,, there is nothing cherished about that animal IMO.

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 Post Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:48 am 
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In my opinion, hunting hogs with the 308 suppressed sub sonics does offer some advantage. Im currently using 150g sierra spitzers at about 1100 fps and yes occasionally one bust the sound barrier. I currently thinning them out of my fields so I do have long shots up to 500 yds if I was using regular loads, but none the less I try to sneak in to within 200yds minimum with 100yds ideal and not getting any closer than that with out some luck. They are currently groomed for dove hunting with over half the sunflowers/millet/haygrazer shredded, so lots of open spaces. The main advantage the subs have is that when you shoot, the hogs of course run, but much slower and with some confusion in the group, sometimes some even run toward me. That offers maybe one or two more shots before they get to cover out of the fields. With a non suppressed full load they run with trans-sonic speeds away from me every time. So yes suppressed subs offer a chance to kill maybe 1-2 more, and I agree anyone who says they kill the whole herd is fos. But I do return early in the AM a few days later and repeat so SLOWLY will kill most of them. And subs a little fun to shoot for they offer a much more challenging shot that a 100% kill with a real load. I suggest using a mildot type reticle for leading the running hogs and for over holding and a laser range finder to 'mark' your initial distance to the hogs.
As for 1000yrd shots- very fun with a 50bmg, but you need them in a good sized clearing, they also will scatter when their buddy suddenly burst into a bloody mess, but they hear nothing from that distance and they will be slow and confused at first, so also maybe one or two more shots before they get the idea.
The ONLY way to kill the whole herd (besides shooting a tannerite bomb in the middle of them) is that all my deer feeders have a fence and hog gate around them. They fence needs to be 4 feet high at least (but may keep some deer out). They can jump surprisingly high and hard when getting killed. And a very sturdy pen wired with heavy duty wires. You MUST kill the entire herd or they will never go back to that feeder. And I walk up with my 5.7 pistol and begin the genocide. But be careful its a bloody mess full of raging hog pandemonium. I did it once with my 50bmg to see what it would do to them. Blasted only 6 out of 20ish before they literally tore through the hog panels- surprised me they could do that, and some even jumped over the 4 1/2 foot tall panels. 50cal hollow points blew a football sized hole in them, but a lot less damage then it does to people who just disintegrate. None the less I never saw evidence of that group on my place again, and it took 3 years for hogs to hit that feeder again.


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 Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:03 am 
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TEXASBOARS wrote:
Sub-Sonic really and truly has nothing to do with "ENERGY" as we would think of it normally :!:
The round is not moving fast enough to "damage" internal organs for a quick death.
Nothing you would relate to "normal' ballistics is "relative" in sub-sonic. It is symply to slow to create hydrostatic shock. It's like shooting an animal with an arrow with no broadhead - perhaps even worse :!: I think an arrow with field point would do more damage.

I WOULD NEVER use it for deer! EVER! Absolutely no need or excuse to justify using a subsonic for cherished valuable wildlife such as deer. NONE
A hog, I don't care,, there is nothing cherished about that animal IMO.


Makes sense, I think it would be cruel to use it on deer too.


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