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 Post Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 11:20 am 
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I am probably undergunned but can shoot fairly acuurate with this gun. I read about a guy in Maine that has been attacked several times by black bear... he said he made a mistake the 1st time, bear slapped gun out of his hand. The next time keep pistol close to chest letting bear take him down, when bear went for his face and neck, he shot it in the mouth. End of attack!
He stated for black bear attack you need 1000 fps and 150 gr. I believe.
I use the Hornady 147 gr XTP. The test I've seen on youtube show 970 fps & 16" penetration thru the denim and ballistic gel
Although not an ideal bear or hog defense weapon, hoping accuracy would be the better than the extra firepower.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Ronnie


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 Post Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 5:26 pm 
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For a woods gun for defense against critters, 9mm in any form is a bit anemic. With bears, or hogs, it's all about penetration. If your bullet can't penetrate to the vitals, you will get mauled, or the animal will get away. For instant stops of both species you gotta take out the central nervous system. Neck, head, spine shots are the only thing that will stop them in their tracks. I've personally seen +P 9mm loads ricochet off of a large boars head. I'm guessing it also had something to do with the load being a hollow point too. I would NOT use anything hollow point for woods defense.

My suggestion if you are going to use a 9mm is to get some Underwood Extreme Penetrator loads. These rounds are solid copper, and have some cutouts on the nose that displace tissue as they penetrate, and they DO penetrate much better than any other round that I've used. You can find this ammo here:https://www.underwoodammo.com/products/9mm-luger-p-115-grain-xtreme-penetrator?variant=18785701560377

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 5:31 pm 
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Underwood also sells some 9mm 147grn rounds that are +P+ specifically made for woods defense. You might check these out too here: https://www.underwoodammo.com/products/9mm-luger-plus-p-plus-147-grain-full-metal-jacket?variant=18785729445945

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 5:57 pm 
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You right! That 9 is probably not enough gun... But I like it and it hits where I aim. Ordering the 147 gr FN. Looked for a penetrating round like that but didn't find one quite like that. The extra powder at close range might burn it's eye balls. Thank you again Marty!
God Bless you
Ronnie


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 Post Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 3:04 pm 
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Ronnie wrote:
You right! That 9 is probably not enough gun... But I like it and it hits where I aim. Ordering the 147 gr FN. Looked for a penetrating round like that but didn't find one quite like that. The extra powder at close range might burn it's eye balls. Thank you again Marty!
God Bless you
Ronnie


My pleasure Ronnie. BTW, I had a Shield 9mm. It's a great gun. Nice and light weight, easy to use and carry. I gave mine to my oldest son for his CC. I have a Shield 45 that I carry often. I like big heavy bullets. I guess I'm just old fashioned when it comes to caliber. I don't really buy into this new wave 9mm craze. The bullet technology that has allowed the 9mm to gain favor is also being used in 40's and 45's.

For my woods gun I'm going to convert a Glock 21 to .45 super. Based on some Underwood .45 super loads it'll be spitting out 230grn pills at something close to 1200fps. That is a lot of oompf right there. They also have a 255grn load that is claimed to be going at about 1050fps. Also, another powerful load. They also sell a 200grn Extreme Penetrator load for the .45 super that is supposed to be going close to 1400fps. That is some serious power. Plus, reloaders for the .45 are getting even better ballistic numbers out of it, some of them approaching 44 mag power loads. It's a serious round. And, I plan to have some fun with it as soon as I convert my 21 over to it. All I need is an after market barrel with better case support, and a 24lb main spring and steel guide rod. I'm looking forward to having some fun with it.

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 3:48 pm 
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That'll stop anything in America I think! Post some obliterated targets when you shoot that pistol!
My 9 is not anything but a CC & in case I'm on the groung after having my long gun knocked away... Hope it never happens but it might. I'm not as consistent as I once was, but can still shoot accurately most days. Shooting a bear or hog thats on me is all the 9 is for. I usually pick up hogs the next day when I hunt late night to be safe


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 Post Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 6:05 pm 
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Ronnie wrote:
That'll stop anything in America I think! Post some obliterated targets when you shoot that pistol!
My 9 is not anything but a CC & in case I'm on the groung after having my long gun knocked away... Hope it never happens but it might. I'm not as consistent as I once was, but can still shoot accurately most days. Shooting a bear or hog thats on me is all the 9 is for. I usually pick up hogs the next day when I hunt late night to be safe


I'll usually have a long gun with me as well. With my pistol as backup. However, I've been doing a bit of crossbow hunting of late. And, tracking through the central Texas brush can be a bit sporty sometimes. Between the rattlesnakes, and possible wounded hogs, I like having my sidearm with me.

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 4:37 pm 
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Good idea! We've been seeing a lot of snakes the last few weeks. Side arms here are allowed for CC permit holders during bow season for deer.
Looks like the wind may shift this weedend, so I'm putting out bait tomorrow, my son wants me to try his Buffalo Bore 147 gr Hard Cast FN bullet to see how my Sheild handles it. I'll shoot 3 rounds of it and ordered 2 boxs of the Underwood Hard Cast FN 147gr +P, S&W says not to use +P+ in their guns.


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 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:32 pm 
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Yea, they say the +P+ ammo doesn't necessarily conform to a standard. Just that they know the pressures are above +P. They do say their pistols can handle +P though. I've shot a lot of +P HST ammo through mine.

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:57 pm 
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Shield didn’t like the Buffalo Bore, 10” group at 12’. Will shoot the underwood HCFN 147 gr tomorrow.
Hit bullseye with the XTP round after the Buffalo Bore 147 HCFN.


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 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 11:34 pm 
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Well, I'm a Colt 1911 Series 80 owner and don't own a 9 mm yet. (The kids have them.) I carried a Colt 1911 and a M3A1 (grease gun), both .45 ACP, as a preference in Vietnam. I also worked as an MP with a Colt 1911. From reading and personal experiences I have seen 230 gr 'ball' just do low damage 'puncture' wounds as well deflecting off hand bones and the head's temple area, leaving what appears to be a .22 cal blood trail just under the skin. Additionally, the .45 ACP is as likely as to deflect off a bone as a 9 mm load. (The .45 Super's velocity should resolve that issue.) If I were just able to shoot FMJ Ball, I'd prefer the .45 as they can be lethal when they tumble. I've seen a Ball round deflect off the hip bone 90 degrees and tumble out the collar bone and the 'critter' was DRT. Black bears don't require the same amount of damage a Brown/ Grizzly. IMO, a 9 mm with a hot 147 gr HP load should do well.

Here's a picture of (middle) 230 gr XTP P+ .45 ACP load (5 inch bbl) that deflected off a boar's shoulder blade and ran under the skin to the far side. Th 9 mm (right) is a 147 gr (4 inch bbl) Lawman on the same boar's body. It went thru the shoulder blade and to the far side (16" or so penetration.) Both rounds were fired at about 3 feet from the boar.

Image

Larger diameter bullets usually do more damage than a smaller bullet diameter of the same construction. Heavy for caliber bullets in all calibers will penetrate better than their lighter versions. As for which bullet loads to use, I feel comfortable with the .45 ACP w/ Hornady XTP loads I made up back when or their new Defense rounds with the soft tips. I also reload for the 9 mm; I read that tests show that Hornady's new 147 gr Defense load is about as good as you can buy these days for 9 mm. Either should work for black bears and hogs. If I were going to Grizzly/ Brown bear areas, I'd carry a .44 Mag with a 2 or 3 inch barrel with 300 gr hard cast wad cutters. (I already have a box of 50 to use; but, you get one shot and recoil ruins a fast 2nd shot, even with a 10.5 " barrel. :) But, man do they penetrate.)

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Semper Fi,

Tom


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 Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:33 am 
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MarineBoar, I used to be a 1911 guy. I carried mostly Colts and Kimbers, with a Springfield mixed in. I've sold or traded all of them off in favor of polymer wonder pistols. The only one I regret trading off was a Series 70 Nickel plated Colt. That pistol was as fine a pistol as a fella could want. It was reliable, accurate, and had a trigger to die for. I was a young lad at 24 when I bought it. I had it for maybe ten years. Then the itch for a .44 magnum bit me. Lord have mercy, I wish it hadn't done that. I walked into a gun shop that had a range, and I had my nickel Colt with me. Bad mistake. I spied a 10" barreled Ruger Super Blackhawk in the show case. And, I had to pick it up. Next thing I know, the clerk has my Colt, and I'm walking away with a brand new Ruger Super Blackhawk. Back then, I didn't realize just how bad the salesman screwed me. Ah well, that big revolver accounted for a bunch of deer and hogs. I ended up trading that 10"er off for a 7.5"er. That smaller barrel was easier to handle, and was easier to pack around. Now that I'm in my mid 50's, and weight of equipment is becoming more of an issue, that big Ruger sits in the safe. And, I find myself packing around my polymer wonder pistols. My favorite woods gun at the moment is my Glock 30SF. It is supremely accurate out to 20yrds. When I get the funds it will be converted to .45 Super. It'll be a handful. I don't anticipate needing to shoot it often. So, recoil will be a non issue. It's size, weight and ease of carry is what draws me to it for woods carry. I've packed it around on several hunts recently. And, I absolutely love it. Right now, I carry it with Federal 230grn +P HST ammo. For .45ACP ammo it has a good amount of thump to it. I haven't used it on game yet, but I suspect at close range it'll get the job done. We shall see.

I've also picked up a new fangled Glock 45, in 9mm. I plan to test it out with the heavy for caliber 147grn pills in various configurations, just to see what she'll do. Believe it or not, both the model 45 and the 30SF seem to be about the same weight loaded, and close to the same size. The model 45 has a 17 sized grip, and a 19 sized slide. Makes for a very easy to shoot and controllable gun. I've put 450rnds of ammo through the model 45, and so far I'm really liking it. Very accurate, and so far very reliable with zero malfunctions.

Whatever gun and ammo a fella takes to the woods, practice with it. Get good with it. Make your shots count. Same goes for self defense.

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 5:05 pm 
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Thank you for the input! Shot the Underwood 147gr HCFN +P today. Cycled great & 1.5” group at 12’. I can’t ask for much more. I really like the way it cycled & recoiled. Feeling better about survival in case of attack! Had several deer, the one bear & 1 sounder on cam. Hog hunt tonight, it’s 98 degrees at 6 pm. Hope it’s cooler where you are.
God Bless y’all


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 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 6:03 pm 
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That's good to hear Ronnie. Good luck on your hunt!!

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 10:55 pm 
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Shot 1 sow at 150 yds, looked to be lung shot, headed into swamp about an hour after dark & no moon. Could not determine the leader, 2 sows about the same size (less than 100lbs) & a bunch of piglets. Felt much safer with this ammo! Hunted till 10:30, nothing else seen.
It wasn’t a lot of action but a good hunt. I’ll bait them in about 100 yds


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