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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:07 am 
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Something I've been curious about recently, is which company puts out the best out of box accuracy for bolt action rifles. I know Remington has been slacking for quite a few years. Browning has too. I've personally owned Remington 700's, Browning A bolt, and Savage 111. The most accurate of the three is the Browning A bolt, but it's close to 20yrs old or more.

So, who currently has the best out of box accuracy of all the manufacturers? If I had to hazard a guess, my money would be on Savage. However, I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on this topic.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:46 pm 
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I got a mossberg mvp patrol in .308 has been real acurate for me, but I'm only shooting 100 yards. I got it because my cousion got one and I shot his first and liked it and it was acurate also


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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:45 pm 
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Hawgman wrote:
has been real acurate for me


Define accurate. Some guys are happy if their rifle shoots 3" groups at 100yrs. Some are happy at 1". And, some, like a friend of mine, want nothing that shoots more than 1/2" at 100yrds.

When we're talking the most accurate out of the box, I mean out of all production rifles currently on the market, which one is most accurate out of the box. Right now I have an AR that will do sub MOA when I do my part and use ammo it likes. My wifes Browning Abolt Medallion .270 has shot small 3 shot clover leafs at 100yrds I could cover with a dime. I never could get it to do that, but my wife did on several occasions. My best with it hovers around 1". My Savage 111 30-06 will do 1.5-2" groups at 100yrds. My .308AR from PSA will do about the same.

So, there's a wide range there of accuracy. I know Remington has had some quality control issues that have made their rifles accuracy suffer the past few years. I hear good things about Savage. There are also some other brands out there that are putting together bolt guns styled after AR's, and supposedly are more accurate than your run of the mill standard bolt gun.

In years past, many of us would put on synthetic stocks, add bedding, free float the forend, and on and on doing different things to increase a bolt guns accuracy. Now days, many of the factory bolt guns already come with those things. Some even come with good adjustable triggers that used to be custom and cost extra.

So, the question remains. Which factory bolt gun is most accurate out of the box?

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Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:24 pm 
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I know a bunch of guys saying that Tikkas are the best bang for your buck. Guys I trust, not just internet experts like myself. My buddy got a Howa 1500 when he got outta the Army some years back and that rifle still impresses me. Handloads of course.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:35 pm 
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I have a 700 SPS, 308 that will print sub 1/2".

So will my PSA AR-10.

I think overall, quality is improving with every manufacturer with newer and more precise manufacturing ability, etc.


IMHO, the only way to quantify an answer to the OP's question would be a large random sampling from all of them.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:03 pm 
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I've read an awful lot of boasting from shooters on various venues, and heard a lot of boasting at the ranges I frequent. I've even seen a few custom rifles that the owners obviously hand load for. And, some of them are good shooters putting down 1/2-1" groups. However, the vast majority of the braggers I've seen couldn't print sub 3" groups, even if their rifles were capable of it.

I'll go out on a limb even further, and say that the vast majority of guys that do the most bragging aren't very good game shots either. I've seen this with a group of guys I hunt with every year. There's 8 of us. Ages range between early 30's to late 60's. All of us are experienced hunters. And, we have fun kidding with one another on the hunt. Somebody misses, we talk trash. Somebody makes a bad hit, we talk trash. Somebody shoots a fawn, we talk trash. And, it seems that most every year it's the same guys missing, the same guys killing good deer, the same guys shooting fawns or button bucks, and the same guys bragging. The ones that aren't bragging are the ones killing deer with good hits.

The guns we use are varied. I've taken my Browning Abolt several times, my Savage 111 several times, and my PSA .308AR a few times. I've killed deer with all of them. We have some guys with the cheap Walmart specials. And, we have a couple guys that love custom bolt guns, and custom AR's. I think the most accurate on the range are the custom bolt guns that a couple guys have. One guy kills deer every year. The other is a bit iffy, sometimes and sometimes not.

What I'm getting at here is the fact that to kill game at reasonable distances, say out to 350yrds, you don't need a super accurate rifle. You just have to be able to shoot the rifle you have accurately. Do you see what I'm getting at? Some guys can pick up any rifle you give them, and be accurate with it. Yet there's guys who buy the most expensive custom rifle they can find, and still can't hit nothing with it.

You do have to start with a solid foundation in your rifle. You definitely want a rifle that will shoot well enough to put a killing shot on an animal out to 350yrds. The kill zone on a deer is about an 8-10" circle on their side. If you can hit an 8" circle at 350yrds consistently you can hit a deer that far and kill it. Now, I ain't that good at math, but seems to me that equates to a rifle that shoots roughly 3" groups at 100yrds. Most factory rifles today will do far better than that. And, when you get into custom guns they shrink it down even further to below 1" at 100.

So, the limiting factor in a rifles hunting accuracy isn't the rifle, usually. It's the hunter pulling the trigger. I'll use my wifes Browning A bolt Medallion .270 as an example. She has, on several occasions, shot nice tiny clover leaf groups at 100yrds with her rifle. And, it's a factory rifle with no modifications and it wears a Leupold Vari-x 3 2-8 power scope on it. She's killed tons of deer with that rifle. And, I don't recall her ever missing with it. Me, on the other hand, can't seem to shoot it that well. I can do 1" on a good day with it. Yet, I've also killed tons of deer, hogs, and aoudads with it. We are supremely confident with that rifle, and it continues to take game for us.

So, as hunters, should we really be looking for the most accurate gun on the market? Or, should we be looking for the gun we're most comfortable with, and can shoot the best with? There is a big difference.

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Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:11 pm 
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We can even venture into the fitment issues of factory rifles. Some fit different people better. Length of pull, cast on, cast off, comb height......etc, all make a difference in how the rifle FITS you, and how well you can shoot it.

To go further into this conversation, once you settle on a rifle shouldn't you do what's necessary to modify it to FIT YOU properly? A poor fitting rifle is very difficult to shoot accurately, no matter how accurate the rifle really is.

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Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:52 pm 
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I agree that one should determine the term "accurate." The military used to specify that a military rifle be capable of shooting 4 m.o.a. or less with military ammo. From the online reviewers I've watched, their consensus is that most major companies rifles will shoot around 1 m.o.a.. That said, I prefer the use of 5 shot groups, slow fired from a bench with support. I would specify the range of 100 yards. I would suggest a scope that has at least 9 power magnification. For hunting specs, I don't believe in a 'fouling shot.' (Most deer, etc, don't let you have a warm up shot.) From there, different weight bullets should be tried. I have a .30 cal rifle that groups 125 grain bullets at 4 " and 130 grain bullets at 1 ". Barrel harmonics come into play. That same rifle will group a Nosler 150 gr Partition @2,880 fps into 1/2" all day. It hates 165/ 168 gr bullets. It groups Sierra 180 gr spire point boat tails like it does the 150 gr Noslers. It shoots 220 gr round nose into 1" @ 2,450 fs. Those are hand loads; but, store bought ammo of different weights will also show preferences.

You can shoot all day on a bench to get a good load figured out; but, you also need to be able to shoot that rifle accurately under hunting conditions. Weight, length of pull, trigger pull, sights and recoil all affect how well you can shoot any rifle. If you can't shoot the rifle in the field, even the best rifle available isn't any good for you. Then there is the cost factor. You will get the quality that you ay for. (Weatherby used to sell all their rifles of a type for the same price. They included a test target with each rifle. They noticed that about 20~30% of their 'standard' rifles shot under 1 m.o.a. so they made these more accurate rifles a "special" that they charged a hundred or more dollars for.)

90+% of all hunting shots are at 100 yards or less. The vast majority of 'hunting cartridges' fail to deliver sufficient energy and trajectory to be useful past 250~300 yards for deer, let alone hogs. IMO, if you're planning on shooting past 300 yards, you will need a 7mm or larger Magnum cartridge to have sufficient energy for reliable shooting.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:51 pm 
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MarineBoar, I agree with most of what you've said. What I don't agree with is "The vast majority of 'hunting cartridges' fail to deliver sufficient energy and trajectory to be useful past 250~300 yards for deer, let alone hogs."

I've personally killed several large aoudad sheep at more than 300yrds, measured with a range finder. The longest one was 358yrds. I have done that with both my 30-06 and my .270 Win. The 30-06 used 165grn Remington Core locts, and the .270 used 130grn Remington Core locts. I've also shot and taken deer at over 300yrds with the same rifles. My longest shot on a whitetail was 311yrds. All shots were pass throughs. The farthest any animal ran was about 150yrds, and that was a large aoudad sheep.

With a range finder, proper knowledge of what your load will do, and at what range, all play a part in taking game out past 300. Shot placement, as always is key. A bad hit at any range results in a wounded animal. With all that said, I think any cartridge in the .270win/30-06 class of cartridges with proper bullets can effectively kill game out to 300 or more yards.

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Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:11 pm 
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I'll also say that my experience at the local rifle range, and watching other guys shoot their nice new rifles, has shown me that even if their rifles are capable of 1" accuracy at 100yrds, they aren't. I've seen very few guys that are putting up targets with 1" or less five shot groups, very few. Whether that's from inexperience, or equipment, is anyone's guess. If I was a wagering man, I'd say it was their inexperience and lack of training.

Many of the guys I see show up with a rifle, and a few boxes of shells they got from Academy. They then proceed to use the wooden blocks provided on the bench to lay their rifles on, and will shoot five rounds with very little time between shots. Trigger control, breathing, follow through, all seem unknown to them.

The ones I really like to watch are the guys who take their time. They have range bags to lay their rifle on, or a nice rest. They'll pull out a plastic ammo box, filled with loads they've put together themselves, made specifically for that rifle. They'll fire off a round, and remain on target for a few seconds with follow through. They might weight five or more minutes between shots to let their barrels cool. Because they know a heated barrel can change their point of impact. I enjoy checking out those guys groups. I've got a friend like that. I've personally seen this guy put five rounds into the same ragged hole. His rifles aren't your average off the shelf rifle though. Most of his are custom jobs, with custom barrels, hand fitted to the receiver, hand fitted to a stock, that's bedded, trued, and barrel free floated, with excellent optics. He spends some money on his equipment, and it's a pleasure shooting and hunting with him.

This same friend of mine, though, can pick up my rifle and kill just as many deer as he does with his custom jobs. Why? Because he's a good game shot. He doesn't get flustered. He's capable of utilizing all the accuracy he can get out of a rifle, and put the bullet where it counts on game.

I started this thread to see where folks have their priority at on their rifles. I was curious to know whether guys would talk about a particular rifle brand as being the most accurate out there. Or, if they might discuss the shooters ability as being just as important as the build of the rifle. I was also curious to see if guys would consider the fitment of the rifle, and how it affects their ability to shoot the rifle accurately.

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:21 pm 
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Marty, the .270 Win and 30-06 Springfield are becoming an "old man's" rifle these days. Those will shoot that far and farther with god energy. This new generation of shooters seem to want a "zero" recoil rifle and that is whom I meant. Lord help the manufacturers of the 'magnum' rifle cartridges stay in business. :)

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Tom


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 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:49 am 
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MarineBoar wrote:
Marty, the .270 Win and 30-06 Springfield are becoming an "old man's" rifle these days. Those will shoot that far and farther with god energy. This new generation of shooters seem to want a "zero" recoil rifle and that is whom I meant. Lord help the manufacturers of the 'magnum' rifle cartridges stay in business. :)


Ah yes, the 6.8SPC crowd. And, the petite folks(no offense to the old dudes who need less recoil) who want their shoulders pain free. LOL, I understand totally now.

My kiddo's were using my .270 when they were around 10. And, they were slaying deer out a ways with them. My oldest son has the record for the kids when he shot a nice 8 point at 258yrds with the .270. If I recall correctly he was around 11 or 12 when he shot that buck. I have to laugh when remembering that hunt. I got so excited that I was shaking the stand a bit. We were in a rickity box stand, and he missed his first shot at about 180yrds. Mitch said "Dad, sit down! You're shaking the stand so much I can't shoot! Now, get me a range so I can kill this sucker!" 258 son, BAM. The deer drops after about a 20yrd run. I was never so proud of a deer kill as I was of that one. He done good, despite the handicap of having dad shaking the stand to pieces. LOL

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:14 pm 
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Hi, I have a Browning XBOLT 30-06 made in Japan that is 1/2 MOA with a Zeiss scope fixed parallax made in Japan also. Great lowlight scope very clear. My son has the Tikka 6.5 Creemoor and it’s accurate. Both these were out of the box accurate. With the XBolt Hunter I shoot hogs and coyote 225 yds in head. I think Kevin has done us a great service making lights to help reduce the feral hogs. I shot a large coyote drafting a 200+ lb hog I had dropped in his tracks 2 days before. I had sent the Browning back to check on the hand full of misfires it had. When I got it back it’s even more accurate, I believe they tweaked the head space. Take care & God Bless


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 Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:41 pm 
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Ronnie wrote:
Hi, I have a Browning XBOLT 30-06 made in Japan that is 1/2 MOA with a Zeiss scope fixed parallax made in Japan also. Great lowlight scope very clear. My son has the Tikka 6.5 Creemoor and it’s accurate. Both these were out of the box accurate. With the XBolt Hunter I shoot hogs and coyote 225 yds in head. I think Kevin has done us a great service making lights to help reduce the feral hogs. I shot a large coyote drafting a 200+ lb hog I had dropped in his tracks 2 days before. I had sent the Browning back to check on the hand full of misfires it had. When I got it back it’s even more accurate, I believe they tweaked the head space. Take care & God Bless


I like those Browning rifles. The Abolt my wife shoots is a very accurate rifle, and was accurate out of the box. Sounds like both you and your son have some nice, and accurate, rifles for hunting and target shooting.

For a long time I was a bolt only guy. I sorta frowned upon using AR's for deer and hog hunting. Then, I found PSA, Palmetto State Armory. And, the world of AR rifles opened up to me in such a way that now they are almost the only rifles I shoot. I have a PA10 in .308 that is my primary deer and hog gun. I have a PSA upper that I've converted into a 6.8SPC, and it's mated to a Seekins Precision lower. I liked the Seekins lower so much that I put together a complete Seekins Precision AR in .223 Wylde, and really love it. With the right ammo it's sub moa all day long. And, I have a fun gun from Windham Weaponry. It's an SRC that I've modified with Magpul furniture, a red dot and some nice iron sights. I recently traded off my other PSA for a couple of Glock .45's, one 21 and one 30SF. So, I'm down to just the four AR's now.

_________________
Happy hunting,
Marty

http://www.feederlights.com/
The BEST HOG HUNTING LIGHTS.
http://www.inheatscents.net/
The BEST HOG HUNTING SCENTS.


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 Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:17 pm 
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I had the PSA pleasure back in March, I enjoyed my visit and bought some extra ammo. When my son was 12 he shot a .270 at deer in a plot...about 25 shots. I took him the 2nd box of ammo when he ran out. At dark there were 9 deer from 200 to 309 yds in that plot. The next day he told me he couldn’t shoot so I put up a deer decoy at 225 yds and told him to shoot it. He hit vitals every time. We named that gas line with 3 food plots Death Valley because he killed every deer that he shot at out to 500 yds with me ranging and calling elevation and windage. Those were some of the greatest hunts I’ve been on! Thanks for sharing your story Marty!


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